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BIG JOE: Does Hockey have the ticker?

hockeygameon Yesterday Joe Hockey met with John Howard to discuss the party leadership.

Although he promised Malcolm Turnbull his support last night.

Today he’s meeting with prospective Deputy Leader Peter Dutton.

The pressure on Joe Hockey to step up and solve the debilitating 50-50 Turnbull v Abbott party room split is immense. Our best calculation shows that Turnbull is slightly ahead with something like 44 votes to Abbott’s 42. A victory like that would no one – least of all Turnbull – any good.

The compromise alternative is neat enough. Hockey would be supported by an overwhelming majority it seems.

For all that Malcolm Turnbull has made it very difficult. He is “salting the Earth” to use the language of one of his colleagues by giving the government many quotes they could use against Abbott or Hockey in the future. Circumstances could scarcely be complex and messy.

But the alternative is an existential crisis for the alternative government of this country.

So the only remaining question for Joe Hockey, is does he have the ticker?

We suspect the answer could be yes, he wouldn’t be meeting Dutton to chat about rugby.


Comments are disallowed for this post.

  1. The ETS should be treated as a gift from God for the Liberal Party, an election winning issue! Take it to the people ‘If u dont understand the ETS then dont vote for it,if u understand the ETS then we know u wont vote for it!’
    As much as I hate to steal ideas from Paul Keating, this is a good one!

    Posted by unhappylibgirl | November 29, 2009, 17:12
  2. They’ll be poo pooing the party’s name.

    They needs to keeps Turnbull.

    Boo boo.

    Posted by Booboo | November 29, 2009, 17:17
  3. insiders today had a list of who voted yes or no on the ETS
    any chance we could see this list?

    Posted by Anonymous | November 29, 2009, 17:41
  4. It’s realistic to say that only Hockey has the populist ability to restrict the massive damage coming the Libs way at the next poll. If they are smart they will allow him to grow into the job over 2 terms, but then Rudd will be gone elsewhere.

    Posted by Close to the storm | November 29, 2009, 18:16
  5. The Hockey stick was a fraud and the Hockey shtick will be too. Sure the man’s avuncular but can you see him reconciling his public positions on climate change with the true patriots in the party. Unless Minchin or Abbott insert themselves and feed him lines, it will be over when Hockey starts to sing.

    Posted by Peaches | November 29, 2009, 18:25
  6. Let’s see if I have this right. The Libs are fractured over the ETS and have decided to dump Turnbull. Now they might replace Turbull with somebody else who supports an ETS. Go figure.

    Posted by I have never voted liberal in my life | November 29, 2009, 18:46
  7. Yes, but they can then dump the Bloated Whale after the next election loss (it’s only a matter of how well or badly the coalition gets defeated then anyway).

    Posted by dmc | November 29, 2009, 18:52
  8. I like a ‘Big Man’, I often dream and lust of “Sloppy Joe” and myself ‘Dogging’ outside a English Male Public Latrine.

    Posted by Alan Jones | November 29, 2009, 20:20
  9. Hockey will be the Latham of the Lib’s.

    Posted by Tony | November 29, 2009, 20:40
  10. Taxi drivers are nervous …

    Posted by Peaches | November 29, 2009, 20:42
  11. dutton is a dummy – thick ex copper from queensland – is anyone serious about him?

    Posted by good grief | November 29, 2009, 22:18
  12. The bitter battle for the leadership of the troubled Liberal Party has stepped up today with Joe Hockey admitting that he does not take showers. The pong is on for this sweaty MP.

    Posted by Roger Ramjet. | November 29, 2009, 22:18
  13. Even with all this so called disunity in the party, the LNP in Queensland – made up of Liberals AND Nationals – managed to unanimously oppose the ETS, just to make it very clear what members and senators thought from qld. Its very clear what the party members think about the big new tax – its time to vote it down.

    Posted by Anon | November 29, 2009, 22:59
  14. dont do it joe. dont save the neos and give them a respectable face. ask why do they want to burn another leader on an unwinnable election? (is there much other talent there – who follows when hockey fails?) save joe and let him become a cleanskin – democracy needs a sustainable opposition (and here’s a tip – that aint abbot and it aint andrews). minchin et al are ego tripping big time. given their history of intolerance for moderates i am not surprised that they want to waste joe now and replace him for term 2 (they dont want him leading during the next period of renewal). keep opposing science and watch the lib/nat base get noisier as their vote gets lower.

    Posted by benny | November 29, 2009, 23:47
  15. A Hockey leadership would be a total disaster for the Liberals, and force a change in the alignment of the non-Labor side of politics…

    If he runs he simultaneously declares the following:

    1. His often repeated pledges of public loyalty to Turnbull are worthless, and so is his word;

    2. Any policy credibility he once had on the ETS will fly out the window when he bows to the extreme right and dumps it.

    Under Hockey, the Liberals are headed for a wipeout at the ballot box, policy irrelevance and years of acrimonious division internally.

    It is not Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership that is over… the Liberal Party in it’s current form is what’s over. The Liberals must cease being a sheltered workshop for extreme right conservatives and religious zealots.

    If not, Labor is in power forever, everywhere as the natural party of government in Australia.

    Posted by Too Sloppy | November 30, 2009, 0:04
  16. Bwaa haaa. ‘Keep opposing science.’

    What science is that, Benny? The three trees selected for the tree ring data? The phony hockey stick graph? The bodgy troposphere temperature recordings?

    Yeah, the IPCC got the best ‘science’their money could buy.

    Posted by Byron in Wahroonga | November 30, 2009, 0:05
  17. ***the ETS should be treated as a gift from God for the Liberal Party, an election winning issue!***

    Exactly. It’s the GST squared, if used correctly. But to do that, Malcolm’s got to go.

    Posted by Byron in Wahroonga | November 30, 2009, 0:07
  18. Posted by Jack | November 30, 2009, 0:22
  19. Pyne for leader?

    Posted by SA wet | November 30, 2009, 1:17
  20. How will the party survive without the amazing skills I have brought to the leadership team? Peter Dutton isn’t worthy to kiss my (crows) feet.

    Posted by Julie Bishop | November 30, 2009, 2:10
  21. Well I’ve had a lot of phone calls with Nick and Peter this weekend and we’ve finally worked out our strategy with Joe: we’re gonna roll him in flour and look for the damp spot.

    Posted by Sophie's strap-on | November 30, 2009, 6:15
  22. I would not pyne for any leader

    Posted by candid | November 30, 2009, 7:53
  23. The solution is so simple to the ETS problem: Joe will eat all the carbon so their is no need for an ETS.

    Posted by Minchin's muncher | November 30, 2009, 9:18
  24. Minchin has learnt his bullying tactics from the CFMEU

    Posted by unionist | November 30, 2009, 9:28
  25. What??

    Dutton for Deputy??

    He won’t have a seat after the next election, no matter what position they give him.

    Surely Joe is not that stupid. He must realise that the conservative right will use him up, destroy his credibility and burn him at the stake at election 2010.. disaster.

    Posted by Too Sloppy | November 30, 2009, 11:27
  26. just let ‘God’ deal with climate change; like that will work!

    Posted by Reds are better in bed | November 30, 2009, 11:48
  27. Too Sloppy,

    Could not agree more. Peter Dutton is a sackless, insipid individual that could not wipe the flies off his face. Can’t even manage his own affairs in Qld, so how the hell is he going to get anything done on a bigger scale.

    Posted by Right Said Fred | November 30, 2009, 12:03
  28. All these puppets of Minchins extreme religious right cabal will accomplish if their stupid enough to oppose Turnbull.

    Will be to see Hockey simply following Howard in being the second liberal leader to lose his seat at an election. And Dutton will make it the first leader and deputy leader combination to lose both their seats simultaneously.

    Have a read of the “God delusion” by Richard Dawkins, by being so deluded with religious fervor, Minchin, Andrews, Abbott, etc the whole cabal are deluding themselves and all those around them!

    This challenge has nothing to do with the ETS, its about the control of the coalition by the extreme religious right, always has been always will be, have a read of, “God under Howard the rise of the religious right in Australian politics”?

    The religious right control every coalition pre selection institute, society and foundation, its the reason they have lost 22 State and Federal elections in a row under Howard. And now their complete and utter delusions are destroying the whole coalition as a stunned nation watches in disbelief at this madness that has infected the coalition like a virus?

    It’s a mirror image of the USA republican party split in two by the same crazy religious right extremist, all credibility lost and now the butt of jokes by comedians and cartoonist as the is coalition here!

    Posted by NQR | November 30, 2009, 12:06
  29. It’s time for two parties:

    1. Liberal Democrats

    2. National Conservatives

    Only then will non-labor have a chance of winning an election.

    Posted by Too Sloppy | November 30, 2009, 12:41
  30. Turnbull unlike Howard, Peacock, Nelson, Downer will be mourned by none even his supporters who must be feeling very let down at the moment.

    Hockey has to come up with an ETS Lite and forge a unified party position, allowing for the fact that there will be a few that will oppose even an ETS Lite.

    Liberal MPs have to realise that being a sceptic doesn’t mean that an ETS is automatically opposed

    Posted by Brighton Liberal | November 30, 2009, 13:01
  31. Imagine picking Dutton as Deputy despite him been a completely ineffective idiot, he does not even have a seat post the next election.
    So the Libs are going to have Humphrey B Bear as Leader and Napoleon Dynamite as Deputy.

    Posted by anon | November 30, 2009, 13:04
  32. Remember Bennelong?

    There is a lot more to come.

    Posted by Too Sloppy | November 30, 2009, 13:32
  33. A dullard deputy who is a liability and only chosen due to an accidetnal alignment of ideological and geographical demands? No, we could never have that in the Liberal Party.

    Posted by Julie Bishop | November 30, 2009, 13:34
  34. What was I doing in those public toilets at Heathrow?

    Posted by Heathrow Alan | November 30, 2009, 13:41
  35. There is a real danger in Dutton being tied up campaigning for a marginal seat and being deputy. Add to this the fact there is no health policy – echoes of Peter Shack 1990!

    Posted by Missing Shack | November 30, 2009, 14:09
  36. Remember captain hook had a ticker and was stalked by an aligator.

    Peter Pan alias Rudd will fly home next year

    Posted by candid | November 30, 2009, 14:55
  37. I heard that Joe is both left-leaning and a Liberal. I’m salivating at the very thought of it.

    Posted by Felissa Myffe | November 30, 2009, 15:00
  38. One would have thought the radical Greens Party would have something to say on climate change every day.
    Apparently all they are doing is voting with Nick Minchin

    Posted by Why don't we hear from the greens? | November 30, 2009, 15:03
  39. Joe Hockey is a big fat sloppy slob, after his gutless backdown on the ETS he will be more flip-flop than Beasley ever was. Australians will never get away the vision of ‘Shrek’ ever time he appears or his name it mentioned.

    Posted by anon | November 30, 2009, 15:14
  40. It is all very well to talk of Hockey as leader, but will he oppose the lunacy of the ETS?

    Further, will he acknowledge fraudulent conduct of climate alarmists – first in UK, now in NZ – and take a leadership position which firmly opposes ANY action or legislation which based on this nonsense?

    Posted by Long Memory, Longer Knife | November 30, 2009, 15:47
  41. @NQR: What a joke of an analysis, all you do is reveal your small-minded bigotry against Christians in public life.

    Most Australians are still Christians. Most know Christians as those who run the best schools for their children and run the best hospitals when they are sick.

    Even agnostics and atheists, and readers of Dawkins, know that Religion, in the real world, promotes virtues, and that Christian virtues are principled, respected and popular in the electorate. ( I am in this category).

    Does Rudd’s Christianity hamper him? Would it be a good electoral tactic for the Liberals to attack his Christian politics? No it would be bigoted electoral poison.

    There is nothing extreme about family values inspired from Christian virtues. What is extreme is an ETS tax to cap and shrink the Australian economy and redistribute enormous amounts of wealth.

    Nick Minchin is a Libertarian, not a Christian Conservative, and this rebellion against the ETS is one fought for the free market values of economic liberty that are the soul of centre-right politics.

    It has nothing to do with religion, it everything to do with an ETS tax that would cripple the Australian economy and redistribute enormous amounts of wealth.

    We are a party that believes in the free markets of Adam Smith’s system of perfect liberty. Of the forgotten people whose wealth is used for grandiose socialist & progressive polices of wealth redistribution.

    The Liberal party will never become a centre-left clone of Labor that believes in high tax, high spending, wealth redistribution.

    If Malcolm Turnbull wants to lead a new “Liberal Reform Movement” and create a New Australian Democrats, then let him discover the electoral poison that is liberal-left politics when it no longer has popular Conservative policies and politics to hide behind.

    Posted by TQS | November 30, 2009, 16:06
  42. Posted by anon | November 30, 2009, 16:47
  43. Hockey the Liberal’s very own Lee Tarlamis!! Ruddy will be laughing all the way to the GG’s Office.

    Posted by anon | November 30, 2009, 17:00
  44. TQS you gave me a hard-on with your talk of Adam Smith and Christian virtues. Fancy a quickie?

    Posted by Party | November 30, 2009, 18:06
  45. @Party: Why not give Gareth-Gareth a call?

    That’s the way left-libralism usually works. Stand-for-nothing and bend over for Labor.

    Posted by TQS | November 30, 2009, 18:19
  46. TQS is left libralism a tendency only to choose books to your left when at the library?

    Posted by Party | November 30, 2009, 18:31
  47. So now it seems the Liberals will allow a conscience vote on the ETS with an expectation that at least 7 of them will let the legislation pass. Friggin’ hell: so this was not about the leader but the issue and the what ends up happening is that Turnbull goes and the issue gets resolved in his favour.

    Posted by Party | November 30, 2009, 18:32
  48. Looks like it will be a conscience vote. Will 7 senators still vote for the ETS? What are the numbers?

    Posted by Joe | November 30, 2009, 18:39
  49. RT @David_Speers: Frontbench and backbench sources say “conscience vote” proposal only being discussed. No decision.

    Posted by Joe | November 30, 2009, 18:43
  50. Minchin = disloyal destroyer.

    Now, watch the true liberals do you over.

    Posted by Too Sloppy | November 30, 2009, 19:24
  51. Actually, between 14 -20 liberals will now cross the floor…

    More tghan enough for a new party.


    Posted by Too Sloppy | November 30, 2009, 19:34
  52. Too Sloppy. Yes, definitely a good description of your intellect.

    Whilst I admit to reservations about Joe’s ability, and his commitment to destruction of the fraud-based ETS, at least the new leadership will be in no doubt about the mood of both the parliamentary and organisational wings of the party.

    This whole fiasco could have been avoided if we hadn’t piled onto the Climate Alarmist bandwagon. We can’t present a clear alternative to the government when we’re joining them in their Chicken Little dance of destruction.

    Posted by Long Memory, Longer Knife | November 30, 2009, 19:39
  53. Your problem LMLK, is that the paliamentary and organisational wings of the “Liberal Party” are totally out of touch with the Australian electorate.


    Remember Bennelong?

    Posted by Too Sloppy | November 30, 2009, 19:45
  54. Bob Hawke once described Malcolm Fraser as being a “cutlery man” – born with a silver spoon in his mouth, speaks with a forked tongue and stabs you in the back with a knife.

    Much of that could be used to describe Joe Hockey, now Bob Hawke’s local member, certainly the latter two points.

    Posted by Col Kurtz | November 30, 2009, 19:48
  55. P.S. What will all this mean for Alex Hawke and the Big Swinging Dicks, who parroted Turnbull’s rhetoric about transforming the Liberal Party and dreamed of his safety net in the form of a lush private sector position if everything failed? Will they go for Turnbull’s plan B and form the new “progressive” centre party? Is Turnbull the new Menzies?

    Posted by Col Kurtz | November 30, 2009, 19:52
  56. Yes…

    Posted by Too Sloppy | November 30, 2009, 19:58
  57. Frauline Feganstein could join the Libs and reintroduce workchoices

    Posted by The Mayor | November 30, 2009, 20:45
  58. @Party:

    Left liberalism is the perversion of classical liberalism’s championing of individual liberty with the collectivist ideal of government redistribution of wealth.

    In the commonwealth left liberalism was best championed by Llyod George. He lead the Liberal Party away from the classic liberalism of Gladstone into the claytons socialism of progressivism. In doing so it plunged the Liberal party into irrelevance as voters either choose the real socialism of the Labor party or the free-market values of the Conservative party.

    In Australia left liberalism had its heyday when Don Chipp and several grassroots “Liberal Reform Movements” split from what they perceived as a too conservative Liberal party and formed the Australian Democrats as a go-it-alone left liberal party. (Still amazing they thought Fraser was too Conservative… How wet can you get???)

    In the past two elections the Australian Democrats have polled in Socialist Alliance territory as left liberalism is exposed for being the stand-for-nothing apologists for Labor they always were. Progressive voters may of admired them, much like they do Malcolm, but they voted Labor or Green.

    Other left liberal breakaways such as Liberals for Forests and the single issue Climate Change parties (Green but free from Communist baggage) have also failed to make any electoral inroads.

    Left liberalism is a myth, from its rotten core of stand-for-nothing Labor-lite progressivism, to its continued unpopularity as it fails at election after election.

    Turnbull’s New Democrats will meet the same fate for the same reasons. Without the popularity of Conservative policies and politics to hide behind, you have only a Labor-lite redistribution of wealth to alienate the centre-right base (An ETS tax). And a weak border protection policy to alienate the Howard battlers. All that’s remains are lefty inner-city admirers, who will all vote Labor and Green anyway.

    Enjoy the dustbin of history, you sold out what liberalism stood for and are reaping the rewards. Drop your last pretences of classical liberalism and make your home with your fellow travellers on the Labor left.

    Posted by TQS | November 30, 2009, 20:55
  59. ***have a read of the “God delusion” by Richard Dawkins***

    No thanks. That book was written for the weak-minded.

    Posted by Byron in Wahroonga | November 30, 2009, 21:16
  60. See how you conservatives go with your ‘philosophy’ … ha ha.

    Remember Bennelong?

    You are a deluded denialist fool TQS.

    Posted by Too Sloppy | November 30, 2009, 22:06
  61. Where do I sign up for the New Liberal Democrats?

    Posted by Dustbin | November 30, 2009, 22:08
  62. Laugh at everything the Liberal party stands for, go on mock the free market, sing the praise of government intervention, demand new taxes and spend to redistribute wealth. See how far it gets you. See who signs up for your cause. See who will donate, campaign and vote for you.


    Posted by TQS | November 30, 2009, 22:14
  63. 225 South Head Road Double Bay. Easy to find, look for five or six silver Priuses parked out front. You can smell the Rainforest Alliance- approved coffee beans from the street.

    Posted by Byron in Wahroonga | November 30, 2009, 22:15
  64. ***Remember Bennelong?***

    Yep! That was John Howard’s seat, Australia’s second longest serving PM, after Sir Robert Menzies. He beat Keating, Beazley and Latham, as I remember, and buried the Republican movement six feet under.

    Any other questions?

    Posted by Byron in Wahroonga | November 30, 2009, 22:24
  65. I had a club foot.
    My namesake in Wahroonga has a club head.

    Posted by Lord Byron | November 30, 2009, 22:37
  66. totally agree with unhappylibgirl in the first comment.

    vote Abbott and go for broke.

    “The ETS is pointless and expensive. If you don’t understand it, don’t vote for it!”

    Posted by Bearbrass | November 30, 2009, 22:56
  67. The comments on The Punch website have been taken over by Labor hacks saying how brave Turnbull is. Absolutely sickening. How could any true Liberal supporter vote for him after the bucket he has been tipping on his colleagues – even Joe Hockey! – in the media for the past few days. Can’t wait to wave him goodbye.

    Posted by Bearbrass | November 30, 2009, 22:59
  68. Hockey’s “conscience vote on the ETS” position is just a soft version of Turnbull’s – it still allows the damn thing to pass and gives Rudd and Wong an undeserved victory that will cost our nation dearly.

    I hope the party rediscovers its soul and elects Abbott. As lefties keep telling us, Australia is a conservative country, and it deserves a proper conservative party led by a real conservative once again.

    Posted by Bearbrass | November 30, 2009, 23:06
  69. Now about this ‘Liberal Democrats Party’ you speak of…

    Posted by Alex Hawke | November 30, 2009, 23:30
  70. I’m going to be spraying my ‘sacred seed’ around tomorrow.

    Posted by mad monk | November 30, 2009, 23:36
  71. Joe Hockey, if you betray us to the ETS, this knife will be seeking your ribs.

    Turnbull – mad.
    Hockey – wimp.
    Abbott – unreliable.

    Bloody hell, what a choice :(

    Go on, Sophie, make a run with Bronwen as your deputy.

    Posted by Long Memory, Longer Knife | November 30, 2009, 23:58
  72. Yes BiW, we remember.

    Howard was only the second (?) PM ever to lose his own seat – he may have beaten Keating, Beazley and Latham… but a total no name from the ALP/ABC beat him down to his children overboard, workchoices & climate denial undies in 07.

    Hockey will get more of the same if he wields the knife tomorrow.

    Any more questions?

    Posted by Too Sloppy | December 1, 2009, 0:06
  73. Thanks TQS.

    Sounds like a great winning strategy to me – worked for Howard, and then Rudd after him.

    We’ll gladly see how far that gets us. To the treasury benches – most likely.

    And you zealots can clap for hairy Mr budgie smugglers in between prayer sessions at the local Catholic Church fete.

    Disloyal wreckers.

    Posted by Dustbin | December 1, 2009, 0:11
  74. Dear LMLK… you are definitely not a honey.

    If you nasty people take the knife to Big Joe, well… we will applaud as he has less loyalty and even less policy credibility than that evil dwarfish femme fatale Panopoulos.

    Her evil thoughts will turn… have turned her into a demon!!!


    Posted by Natasha the Despoiler | December 1, 2009, 0:18
  75. hang on a tick – is the same “Joe Hockey” I saw on Q&A a while back saying he felt uncomfortable with foreign debt levels because he didn’t like the idea of owing money to “these foreigners”?

    His ‘average bloke’ act is so bad it makes Packed to the Rafters look like The Wire; and is as realistic as the Libs’ commitment to free markets.

    Lib fanboys would do well to hire a copy of The Warriors and mark the words: “Don’t f–k with the Wongs”.

    Posted by Epstein's Mother | December 1, 2009, 0:20
  76. Whatever happens in the morning the legislation goes through the Senate:

    Are you listening Mr (blood on your hands) Minchin?

    Turnbull wins: it goes through.(right denialists cross over)

    Hockey wins: it goes through. (conscience vote and ETS dealers cross over)

    Abbott wins: it will not be deferred and (7-12 liberal liberals honor the deal and cross over)

    So all liberals and some conservatives can thank Minchin/ Abbott/ Andrews and the loony right for a divided party and a drubbing at the next federal poll.

    Why couldn’t the right just do what the small ‘l’ libertals always do when they lose and tow the party line?


    Posted by Reality Check | December 1, 2009, 0:45
  77. I hate to say it, but of the three main contenders the ONLY chance to defeat the ETS is to vote for Tony Abbott.

    The Rising Damp faction has made it difficult for Joe Hockey to win. Some who were inclined to support his leadership now will not risk this legislation passing by a “conscience” (read “uninformed and looney”) vote from a few dullard senators.

    Troeth, Humphries et al should look to their next preselections. The anger from their membership will be a terrible thing.

    Posted by Long Memory, Longer Knife | December 1, 2009, 9:27
  78. Troeth retiring

    Posted by old witch | December 1, 2009, 9:34
  79. abbott by 1 vote

    Posted by Anonymous | December 1, 2009, 9:53
  80. Abbotts in I hope you ‘conservative’ clowns are comfortable on the opposition benches because you are going to be there for a lot longer

    Posted by Anonymous | December 1, 2009, 10:05
  81. Excellent news.

    Now the party can start to rebuild and have sensible policies.

    Posted by dmc | December 1, 2009, 10:09
  82. Mistake #1: Julie Bishop

    Posted by Long Memory, Longer Knife | December 1, 2009, 10:10
  83. Sensible policies under Tony Abbott ?? More like ultra conservative right wing policies?
    Abbott isn’t liked by lots of libs and many in Aus

    Posted by anndoran | December 1, 2009, 13:25
  84. The whole of the Luna Left would have pushed the ETS and bankrupted our Country.
    Malcolm and his pack of Left wing Eastern Suburbs Lunnies, would have happily destroyed the economy of the once great land. Go back to cleaning cars and take Alex, Nick and Mick with you. You can change your name to Marks (as you follow his Philosophy) but it would be more like Groucho Marks as you are such a clown.

    Posted by Mark Neeham | December 1, 2009, 22:03
  85. Bucket-guts Hockey got lucky today. Good ballot for him to lose. Go home to your kids and wait for a year or two, then the party will come crawling for you.

    Posted by Anonymous | December 1, 2009, 23:04


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