The ETS should be treated as a gift from God for the Liberal Party, an election winning issue! Take it to the people ‘If u dont understand the ETS then dont vote for it,if u understand the ETS then we know u wont vote for it!’
As much as I hate to steal ideas from Paul Keating, this is a good one!

They’ll be poo pooing the party’s name.

They needs to keeps Turnbull.

Boo boo.

insiders today had a list of who voted yes or no on the ETS
any chance we could see this list?

It’s realistic to say that only Hockey has the populist ability to restrict the massive damage coming the Libs way at the next poll. If they are smart they will allow him to grow into the job over 2 terms, but then Rudd will be gone elsewhere.

The Hockey stick was a fraud and the Hockey shtick will be too. Sure the man’s avuncular but can you see him reconciling his public positions on climate change with the true patriots in the party. Unless Minchin or Abbott insert themselves and feed him lines, it will be over when Hockey starts to sing.

Let’s see if I have this right. The Libs are fractured over the ETS and have decided to dump Turnbull. Now they might replace Turbull with somebody else who supports an ETS. Go figure.

Yes, but they can then dump the Bloated Whale after the next election loss (it’s only a matter of how well or badly the coalition gets defeated then anyway).

I like a ‘Big Man’, I often dream and lust of “Sloppy Joe” and myself ‘Dogging’ outside a English Male Public Latrine.

Hockey will be the Latham of the Lib’s.

Taxi drivers are nervous …

dutton is a dummy – thick ex copper from queensland – is anyone serious about him?

The bitter battle for the leadership of the troubled Liberal Party has stepped up today with Joe Hockey admitting that he does not take showers. The pong is on for this sweaty MP.

Even with all this so called disunity in the party, the LNP in Queensland – made up of Liberals AND Nationals – managed to unanimously oppose the ETS, just to make it very clear what members and senators thought from qld. Its very clear what the party members think about the big new tax – its time to vote it down.

dont do it joe. dont save the neos and give them a respectable face. ask why do they want to burn another leader on an unwinnable election? (is there much other talent there – who follows when hockey fails?) save joe and let him become a cleanskin – democracy needs a sustainable opposition (and here’s a tip – that aint abbot and it aint andrews). minchin et al are ego tripping big time. given their history of intolerance for moderates i am not surprised that they want to waste joe now and replace him for term 2 (they dont want him leading during the next period of renewal). keep opposing science and watch the lib/nat base get noisier as their vote gets lower.

A Hockey leadership would be a total disaster for the Liberals, and force a change in the alignment of the non-Labor side of politics…

If he runs he simultaneously declares the following:

1. His often repeated pledges of public loyalty to Turnbull are worthless, and so is his word;

2. Any policy credibility he once had on the ETS will fly out the window when he bows to the extreme right and dumps it.

Under Hockey, the Liberals are headed for a wipeout at the ballot box, policy irrelevance and years of acrimonious division internally.

It is not Malcolm Turnbull’s leadership that is over… the Liberal Party in it’s current form is what’s over. The Liberals must cease being a sheltered workshop for extreme right conservatives and religious zealots.

If not, Labor is in power forever, everywhere as the natural party of government in Australia.

Bwaa haaa. ‘Keep opposing science.’

What science is that, Benny? The three trees selected for the tree ring data? The phony hockey stick graph? The bodgy troposphere temperature recordings?

Yeah, the IPCC got the best ’science’their money could buy.

***the ETS should be treated as a gift from God for the Liberal Party, an election winning issue!***

Exactly. It’s the GST squared, if used correctly. But to do that, Malcolm’s got to go.

Confirmed

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/joe-hockey-set-to-take-on-malcolm-turnbull/story-e6frg6n6-1225805155171

Pyne for leader?

How will the party survive without the amazing skills I have brought to the leadership team? Peter Dutton isn’t worthy to kiss my (crows) feet.

Well I’ve had a lot of phone calls with Nick and Peter this weekend and we’ve finally worked out our strategy with Joe: we’re gonna roll him in flour and look for the damp spot.

I would not pyne for any leader

The solution is so simple to the ETS problem: Joe will eat all the carbon so their is no need for an ETS.

Minchin has learnt his bullying tactics from the CFMEU

What??

Dutton for Deputy??

He won’t have a seat after the next election, no matter what position they give him.

Surely Joe is not that stupid. He must realise that the conservative right will use him up, destroy his credibility and burn him at the stake at election 2010.. disaster.

just let ‘God’ deal with climate change; like that will work!

Too Sloppy,

Could not agree more. Peter Dutton is a sackless, insipid individual that could not wipe the flies off his face. Can’t even manage his own affairs in Qld, so how the hell is he going to get anything done on a bigger scale.

All these puppets of Minchins extreme religious right cabal will accomplish if their stupid enough to oppose Turnbull.

Will be to see Hockey simply following Howard in being the second liberal leader to lose his seat at an election. And Dutton will make it the first leader and deputy leader combination to lose both their seats simultaneously.

Have a read of the “God delusion” by Richard Dawkins, by being so deluded with religious fervor, Minchin, Andrews, Abbott, etc the whole cabal are deluding themselves and all those around them!

This challenge has nothing to do with the ETS, its about the control of the coalition by the extreme religious right, always has been always will be, have a read of, “God under Howard the rise of the religious right in Australian politics”?

The religious right control every coalition pre selection institute, society and foundation, its the reason they have lost 22 State and Federal elections in a row under Howard. And now their complete and utter delusions are destroying the whole coalition as a stunned nation watches in disbelief at this madness that has infected the coalition like a virus?

It’s a mirror image of the USA republican party split in two by the same crazy religious right extremist, all credibility lost and now the butt of jokes by comedians and cartoonist as the is coalition here!

It’s time for two parties:

1. Liberal Democrats

2. National Conservatives

Only then will non-labor have a chance of winning an election.

Turnbull unlike Howard, Peacock, Nelson, Downer will be mourned by none even his supporters who must be feeling very let down at the moment.

Hockey has to come up with an ETS Lite and forge a unified party position, allowing for the fact that there will be a few that will oppose even an ETS Lite.

Liberal MPs have to realise that being a sceptic doesn’t mean that an ETS is automatically opposed

Imagine picking Dutton as Deputy despite him been a completely ineffective idiot, he does not even have a seat post the next election.
So the Libs are going to have Humphrey B Bear as Leader and Napoleon Dynamite as Deputy.

Remember Bennelong?

There is a lot more to come.

A dullard deputy who is a liability and only chosen due to an accidetnal alignment of ideological and geographical demands? No, we could never have that in the Liberal Party.

What was I doing in those public toilets at Heathrow?

There is a real danger in Dutton being tied up campaigning for a marginal seat and being deputy. Add to this the fact there is no health policy – echoes of Peter Shack 1990!

Remember captain hook had a ticker and was stalked by an aligator.

Peter Pan alias Rudd will fly home next year

I heard that Joe is both left-leaning and a Liberal. I’m salivating at the very thought of it.

One would have thought the radical Greens Party would have something to say on climate change every day.
Apparently all they are doing is voting with Nick Minchin

Joe Hockey is a big fat sloppy slob, after his gutless backdown on the ETS he will be more flip-flop than Beasley ever was. Australians will never get away the vision of ‘Shrek’ ever time he appears or his name it mentioned.

It is all very well to talk of Hockey as leader, but will he oppose the lunacy of the ETS?

Further, will he acknowledge fraudulent conduct of climate alarmists – first in UK, now in NZ – and take a leadership position which firmly opposes ANY action or legislation which based on this nonsense?

@NQR: What a joke of an analysis, all you do is reveal your small-minded bigotry against Christians in public life.

Most Australians are still Christians. Most know Christians as those who run the best schools for their children and run the best hospitals when they are sick.

Even agnostics and atheists, and readers of Dawkins, know that Religion, in the real world, promotes virtues, and that Christian virtues are principled, respected and popular in the electorate. ( I am in this category).

Does Rudd’s Christianity hamper him? Would it be a good electoral tactic for the Liberals to attack his Christian politics? No it would be bigoted electoral poison.

There is nothing extreme about family values inspired from Christian virtues. What is extreme is an ETS tax to cap and shrink the Australian economy and redistribute enormous amounts of wealth.

Nick Minchin is a Libertarian, not a Christian Conservative, and this rebellion against the ETS is one fought for the free market values of economic liberty that are the soul of centre-right politics.

It has nothing to do with religion, it everything to do with an ETS tax that would cripple the Australian economy and redistribute enormous amounts of wealth.

We are a party that believes in the free markets of Adam Smith’s system of perfect liberty. Of the forgotten people whose wealth is used for grandiose socialist & progressive polices of wealth redistribution.

The Liberal party will never become a centre-left clone of Labor that believes in high tax, high spending, wealth redistribution.

If Malcolm Turnbull wants to lead a new “Liberal Reform Movement” and create a New Australian Democrats, then let him discover the electoral poison that is liberal-left politics when it no longer has popular Conservative policies and politics to hide behind.

http://www.ldp.org.au

Hockey the Liberal’s very own Lee Tarlamis!! Ruddy will be laughing all the way to the GG’s Office.

TQS you gave me a hard-on with your talk of Adam Smith and Christian virtues. Fancy a quickie?

@Party: Why not give Gareth-Gareth a call?

That’s the way left-libralism usually works. Stand-for-nothing and bend over for Labor.

TQS is left libralism a tendency only to choose books to your left when at the library?

So now it seems the Liberals will allow a conscience vote on the ETS with an expectation that at least 7 of them will let the legislation pass. Friggin’ hell: so this was not about the leader but the issue and the what ends up happening is that Turnbull goes and the issue gets resolved in his favour.

Looks like it will be a conscience vote. Will 7 senators still vote for the ETS? What are the numbers?

RT @David_Speers: Frontbench and backbench sources say “conscience vote” proposal only being discussed. No decision.

Minchin = disloyal destroyer.

Now, watch the true liberals do you over.

Actually, between 14 -20 liberals will now cross the floor…

More tghan enough for a new party.

Yipee.

Too Sloppy. Yes, definitely a good description of your intellect.

Whilst I admit to reservations about Joe’s ability, and his commitment to destruction of the fraud-based ETS, at least the new leadership will be in no doubt about the mood of both the parliamentary and organisational wings of the party.

This whole fiasco could have been avoided if we hadn’t piled onto the Climate Alarmist bandwagon. We can’t present a clear alternative to the government when we’re joining them in their Chicken Little dance of destruction.

Your problem LMLK, is that the paliamentary and organisational wings of the “Liberal Party” are totally out of touch with the Australian electorate.

Totally.

Remember Bennelong?

Bob Hawke once described Malcolm Fraser as being a “cutlery man” – born with a silver spoon in his mouth, speaks with a forked tongue and stabs you in the back with a knife.

Much of that could be used to describe Joe Hockey, now Bob Hawke’s local member, certainly the latter two points.

P.S. What will all this mean for Alex Hawke and the Big Swinging Dicks, who parroted Turnbull’s rhetoric about transforming the Liberal Party and dreamed of his safety net in the form of a lush private sector position if everything failed? Will they go for Turnbull’s plan B and form the new “progressive” centre party? Is Turnbull the new Menzies?

Yes…

Frauline Feganstein could join the Libs and reintroduce workchoices

@Party:

Left liberalism is the perversion of classical liberalism’s championing of individual liberty with the collectivist ideal of government redistribution of wealth.

In the commonwealth left liberalism was best championed by Llyod George. He lead the Liberal Party away from the classic liberalism of Gladstone into the claytons socialism of progressivism. In doing so it plunged the Liberal party into irrelevance as voters either choose the real socialism of the Labor party or the free-market values of the Conservative party.

In Australia left liberalism had its heyday when Don Chipp and several grassroots “Liberal Reform Movements” split from what they perceived as a too conservative Liberal party and formed the Australian Democrats as a go-it-alone left liberal party. (Still amazing they thought Fraser was too Conservative… How wet can you get???)

In the past two elections the Australian Democrats have polled in Socialist Alliance territory as left liberalism is exposed for being the stand-for-nothing apologists for Labor they always were. Progressive voters may of admired them, much like they do Malcolm, but they voted Labor or Green.

Other left liberal breakaways such as Liberals for Forests and the single issue Climate Change parties (Green but free from Communist baggage) have also failed to make any electoral inroads.

Left liberalism is a myth, from its rotten core of stand-for-nothing Labor-lite progressivism, to its continued unpopularity as it fails at election after election.

Turnbull’s New Democrats will meet the same fate for the same reasons. Without the popularity of Conservative policies and politics to hide behind, you have only a Labor-lite redistribution of wealth to alienate the centre-right base (An ETS tax). And a weak border protection policy to alienate the Howard battlers. All that’s remains are lefty inner-city admirers, who will all vote Labor and Green anyway.

Enjoy the dustbin of history, you sold out what liberalism stood for and are reaping the rewards. Drop your last pretences of classical liberalism and make your home with your fellow travellers on the Labor left.

***have a read of the “God delusion” by Richard Dawkins***

No thanks. That book was written for the weak-minded.

See how you conservatives go with your ‘philosophy’ … ha ha.

Remember Bennelong?

You are a deluded denialist fool TQS.

Where do I sign up for the New Liberal Democrats?

Laugh at everything the Liberal party stands for, go on mock the free market, sing the praise of government intervention, demand new taxes and spend to redistribute wealth. See how far it gets you. See who signs up for your cause. See who will donate, campaign and vote for you.

PROTIP:
http://www.alp.org.au/action/join.php

225 South Head Road Double Bay. Easy to find, look for five or six silver Priuses parked out front. You can smell the Rainforest Alliance- approved coffee beans from the street.

***Remember Bennelong?***

Yep! That was John Howard’s seat, Australia’s second longest serving PM, after Sir Robert Menzies. He beat Keating, Beazley and Latham, as I remember, and buried the Republican movement six feet under.

Any other questions?

I had a club foot.
My namesake in Wahroonga has a club head.

totally agree with unhappylibgirl in the first comment.

vote Abbott and go for broke.

“The ETS is pointless and expensive. If you don’t understand it, don’t vote for it!”

The comments on The Punch website have been taken over by Labor hacks saying how brave Turnbull is. Absolutely sickening. How could any true Liberal supporter vote for him after the bucket he has been tipping on his colleagues – even Joe Hockey! – in the media for the past few days. Can’t wait to wave him goodbye.

Hockey’s “conscience vote on the ETS” position is just a soft version of Turnbull’s – it still allows the damn thing to pass and gives Rudd and Wong an undeserved victory that will cost our nation dearly.

I hope the party rediscovers its soul and elects Abbott. As lefties keep telling us, Australia is a conservative country, and it deserves a proper conservative party led by a real conservative once again.

Now about this ‘Liberal Democrats Party’ you speak of…

I’m going to be spraying my ’sacred seed’ around tomorrow.

Joe Hockey, if you betray us to the ETS, this knife will be seeking your ribs.

Turnbull – mad.
Hockey – wimp.
Abbott – unreliable.

Bloody hell, what a choice

Go on, Sophie, make a run with Bronwen as your deputy.

Yes BiW, we remember.

Howard was only the second (?) PM ever to lose his own seat – he may have beaten Keating, Beazley and Latham… but a total no name from the ALP/ABC beat him down to his children overboard, workchoices & climate denial undies in 07.

Hockey will get more of the same if he wields the knife tomorrow.

Any more questions?

Thanks TQS.

Sounds like a great winning strategy to me – worked for Howard, and then Rudd after him.

We’ll gladly see how far that gets us. To the treasury benches – most likely.

And you zealots can clap for hairy Mr budgie smugglers in between prayer sessions at the local Catholic Church fete.

Disloyal wreckers.

Dear LMLK… you are definitely not a honey.

If you nasty people take the knife to Big Joe, well… we will applaud as he has less loyalty and even less policy credibility than that evil dwarfish femme fatale Panopoulos.

Her evil thoughts will turn… have turned her into a demon!!!

Seriously!

hang on a tick – is the same “Joe Hockey” I saw on Q&A a while back saying he felt uncomfortable with foreign debt levels because he didn’t like the idea of owing money to “these foreigners”?

His ‘average bloke’ act is so bad it makes Packed to the Rafters look like The Wire; and is as realistic as the Libs’ commitment to free markets.

Lib fanboys would do well to hire a copy of The Warriors and mark the words: “Don’t f–k with the Wongs”.

Whatever happens in the morning the legislation goes through the Senate:

Are you listening Mr (blood on your hands) Minchin?

Turnbull wins: it goes through.(right denialists cross over)

Hockey wins: it goes through. (conscience vote and ETS dealers cross over)

Abbott wins: it will not be deferred and (7-12 liberal liberals honor the deal and cross over)

So all liberals and some conservatives can thank Minchin/ Abbott/ Andrews and the loony right for a divided party and a drubbing at the next federal poll.

Why couldn’t the right just do what the small ‘l’ libertals always do when they lose and tow the party line?

Why?

I hate to say it, but of the three main contenders the ONLY chance to defeat the ETS is to vote for Tony Abbott.

The Rising Damp faction has made it difficult for Joe Hockey to win. Some who were inclined to support his leadership now will not risk this legislation passing by a “conscience” (read “uninformed and looney”) vote from a few dullard senators.

Troeth, Humphries et al should look to their next preselections. The anger from their membership will be a terrible thing.

Troeth retiring

abbott by 1 vote

Abbotts in I hope you ‘conservative’ clowns are comfortable on the opposition benches because you are going to be there for a lot longer

Excellent news.

Now the party can start to rebuild and have sensible policies.

Mistake #1: Julie Bishop

Sensible policies under Tony Abbott ?? More like ultra conservative right wing policies?
Abbott isn’t liked by lots of libs and many in Aus

The whole of the Luna Left would have pushed the ETS and bankrupted our Country.
Malcolm and his pack of Left wing Eastern Suburbs Lunnies, would have happily destroyed the economy of the once great land. Go back to cleaning cars and take Alex, Nick and Mick with you. You can change your name to Marks (as you follow his Philosophy) but it would be more like Groucho Marks as you are such a clown.

Bucket-guts Hockey got lucky today. Good ballot for him to lose. Go home to your kids and wait for a year or two, then the party will come crawling for you.