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SAVING RYAN’S PRIVATES: Scott Ryan steals safe Senate spot from Helen Kroger in tight contest

RyankrogerfifieldSenator Scott Ryan has unexpectedly triumphed in his undignified arm-wrestle with Helen Kroger in the Victorian Liberal Senate preselection stoush. They were fighting over who would hold the safe #2 position in a huge battle for prestige and authority within the Victorian division that might not mean much given the surging Liberal primary vote reflected in published and private polls. This should be enough to make the #3 spot reasonably certain.

Ryan – who lost one of his trusted advisers after a social media scandal last year – has managed to successfully divide and conquer his anti-Baillieu “action faction” for his considerable personal benefit, insiders say, having teamed up with Mitch Fifield to do in Helen Kroger. Baillieu strongly backed Ryan, insiders say.

The new voting system favoured Ryan, with 1/3rd of today’s preselectors derived from State Council, 1/3rd from State Assembly (1/2 State Council 1/2 electorates), 1/3rd from all federal electorates directly represented by 3 men and 3 women. So about half of the preselectors come from electorates, many of which, as we will see, comprise, very few party members and are therefore highly suspectible to being gamed by the shrewd and scheming.

This was a system proposed under the Kemp reforms and was used for the first time in Senate preselections today.

It was, in no small part, devised by Ryan personally in his capacity serving on the Constitution committee.

Liberal (and sometimes Labor) Senators are allocated seats over which they serve as patron, attending branch meetings and generally supporting party members.

Ryan cannily knew what this meant in terms of a potential takedown of Kroger and put his hand up for what VEXNEWS is told is around 13 patron seats, which principally comprise safe Labor seats, mainly in Melbourne’s west and northern suburbs where there are usually as few Liberal party members as 10 or 20.

Fully aware of how the system worked, Ryan then assiduously cultivated members in these areas, where they are not familiar with getting a lot of love from their elected Liberal representatives. By contrast, Helen Kroger had three ‘patron seats’ comprising a much greater number of Liberal party members in eastern suburbs seats.

In terms of patron seat responsibilities, Senator Ronaldson has been allocated the Ballart, Bendigo, Geelong seats, Helen Kroger eastern suburbs seats like Chisholm andDeakin, Fifield the south east and Ryan many west/safe Labor seats.

It’s not unreasonable to say that Ryan has brilliantly gamed a series of rotten boroughs to defeat Helen Kroger, who brought him through the party when she was president and actively promoted him to others.

Part of Ryan’s argument for promotion was that he was unlikely to given the run he deserved in the shadow ministry and soon-to-be ministry from the #3 spot. His opponents say there are others from Victoria with a much stronger claim.

If you can forgive disloyalty that Ryan amply demonstrated, there is no doubt Ryan played his hand cunningly and shrewdly. Indeed, the Kroger forces grew to be initially suspicious of Ryan when he betrayed his colleagues on the Turnbull/Abbott leadership question, even though there has been a reconciliation of sorts with the brutally effective party leader, those willing to go behind their group’s back to support a rival are not usually so quickly forgiven.

Many are now keen to see if Ryan’s success and the bad blood associated with putting out different results to the media will have its effect on the faction at the next meeting of the party’s State Council in a couple of weeks.

The result with Ryan on 216 votes with Kroger on 199 is very close and comes despite the active intervention of highly regarded faction founder Michael Kroger on behalf of his ex. The closeness of the result suggests that Ryan has narrowly prevailed, almost certainly with the help of Kroger’s foes on the Baillieu side of the party, who are governing Victoria with none of the verve and panache demonstrated by former Premier Kennett, according to most Liberal critics.

Ryan has been tremendously rewarded for his boldness in this contest, refusing to submit to considerable pressure to back off. But it remains to be seen what pay-back might come down the track.

UPDATE: Mitch Fifield polled very strongly with Tweet reports that Fifield attracted 251 votes, against 92 for Ryan and 71 for Kroger in the first round.

UPDATE: Perhaps most deliciously of all, there has been a spectacular battle after the preselection about what the actual result has been.

The results were not generally announced.

Kroger’s people report the result as we have, 216 to 199. Others say that the result reported by the ABC’s highly regarded young scribe Latika Bourke on Twitter, 276 to 139 was in fact the real one, suggesting an absolute thumping by Ryan of Kroger.

Bourke even went so far as to suggest Kroger’s backers were lying about the results:

This was not received well by those Kroger backers going off for a beer and a few moments of quiet reflection.

The response from those who say Bourke is not correct has come in pictorial form, in a way that will titilate VEXNEWS readers perhaps far more than is appropriate on a Sunday afternoon. Those who sent them suggest that Bourke maintains a social connection with Ryan’s chief backers, Senator Mitch Fifield and Casey MP Tony Smith and doesn’t mind hanging out with Senator Ryan himself.

UPDATE: Some Libs, linked Baillieu forces, considered reasonably independent in the struggle insist Kroger’s backers are “bullshitting” about the results and that she was “smashed” and “humiliated” by the landslide result. Never a dull moment.

UPDATE: Further rumblings that Senator Fifield, while flushed with ecstasy of six more years of red leather, is incandescent with rage that he put in dozens of calls to help Scott Ryan and that he was ratted on with nearly 100 votes that strayed and voted for Ryan and not Fifield in the first round. By comparison, in 2006, only 2 people broke the ticket against Mitch. Some suspect the alliance against Helen Kroger was very short term from Slippery Scott’s perspective, with allegation and counter-claim about how and why the agreed ticket was ratted on. Good times.


Comments are disallowed for this post.

  1. Ryan sh*t it in. Sounds like Krogers ex is trying to dress up the result for her to save face in the Party Room.

    Posted by Nico | April 15, 2012, 17:38
  2. We can all thank our lucky stars that the VERY IMPORTANT Mr Fifield is our No 1.

    Posted by Just_In McKeegan | April 15, 2012, 18:28
  3. Latika is hot. What a shame Jess Adalan was not at the Midwinter Ball.

    Posted by Dirty Ol' Man | April 15, 2012, 18:37
  4. Just_in – have not heard from you in a while.

    Posted by Byrne Baby Byrne | April 15, 2012, 18:40
  5. Byrne Baby Byrne – have not heard from you in a while.

    Txt me. Wld be hot.

    Posted by RDR | April 15, 2012, 18:42
  6. Scott didn’t lose an adviser – he was doing the numbers!

    Posted by Mitch's Bitch | April 15, 2012, 18:43
  7. Christ I hope Kroger picks his 3rd wife far better than the first two [deleted – sexist] he married.

    Posted by anon | April 15, 2012, 19:47
  8. The best performing Kroger was none other than Simon T or Kroges the Younger, who impressed delegates with his strong performance in the Round Tables question and answer session.

    Posted by Kroges Fan Club | April 15, 2012, 20:13
  9. Latika Bourke txt me if you need a ride home in my ministerial limo.

    Posted by R.D.R | April 15, 2012, 22:34
  10. I’ll win Eden Monaro with the support I have gained from MULC. Amazing what favours broke girls can offer!!!!

    I’m really really rich though. Just ask me

    Posted by Tara Whitehead | April 15, 2012, 22:45
  11. There should be a lot of people tonight concerned that they “backed” both sides, this does not make friends. If you never had a vote to begin with you were very stupid to get involved. Lines were drawn they wont be forgotten easily. It seeks today was a victory for those young Turks who supported Scott from day 1.

    Posted by Northern Metro | April 15, 2012, 23:54
  12. I am drafting another angry letter to 104 as we speak. My dear Helen could only have lost by 150 votes if the forces of Scott Ryan and new Liberal powerbroker Scott Pierce resorted to criminal means!

    I have also sprouted my first pubic hair! Hurrah!

    Posted by Yoni Cuckierman | April 16, 2012, 8:14
  13. I heard that spilberg is going to make a movie of this preselection – it will be called Saving Ryans Privates

    Posted by the Insider | April 16, 2012, 9:37
  14. Extraordinary that vexnews has failed to mention Dr Hussein Tahiri, the fourth candidate on the ticket. Dr Tahiri outperformed Kroger both in the round tables and in his speech to delegates. Tahiri’s reading glasses broke just prior to taking the stage and he delivered his speech without notes. In contrast Kroger read every word in a shrill nervous voice. Tahiri’s speech was erudite and relevent. In contrast Kroger’s was full of platitudes and inanities designed to woo party hacks. Pity Tahiri didn’t get third on the ticket. He deserved to and hopefully one day he will make a fine contribution to the Australian Parliament.

    Posted by LiberalCougar | April 16, 2012, 9:41
  15. Ryan is probably more talented that the Senators below and above him on the ticket.

    Posted by Steve Sensible | April 16, 2012, 10:37
  16. A great result for the party

    Posted by Tony Abbott | April 16, 2012, 11:17
  17. Very much doubt the claims of Helen groupies that Mitch “is incandescent with rage that he put in dozens of calls to help Scott Ryan and that he was ratted on with nearly 100 votes that strayed and voted for Ryan and not Fifield in the first round.”

    Whilst it is correct to point out that Mitch only lost 2 votes in the first round of voting in 2006, it is mischievous to extrapolate from this some kind of cunning ploy from Scott to divert away as many votes as possible to himself in the first round.

    Back in 2006 the Senate preselection was undertaken by the now defunct Policy Assembly, consisting of approximately 110 very active and senior party members. Back in 2006 PA was then completely dominated by the Kroger/Costello factional grouping which was at the time united and disciplined.

    As a result of changes to the Constitution of the Victorian Division the body that now preselects senators has a membership of almost 470. Many of the delegates that voted on Sunday had never before participated in a preselection of any kind and where not necessarily declared members of any factional or sub-factional grouping. So the discipline, closeness of factional ties and understanding of the processes involved is completely different for delegates in 2012 to what it was in 2006.

    So it seems that Helen’s spear carriers are once again telling porkies in a vain attempt to polish the turd which was a 276 – 139 defeat.

    Posted by Anonski | April 16, 2012, 11:28
  18. LiberalCougar – some good points but the 4th candidate on the ticket may get elected too as the ALP are so on the nose.

    Also Kroger had a go at Baillieu when the Libs preferenced Adam Ant over the ALP (trader union hack) for Melbourne at the last election.

    The Greens have made the ALP look like a puppet in “coalition” so a short term upset for the Krogers well end up a long term strategic victory at the next election for the Libs.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 16, 2012, 11:39
  19. Everyone will remember the 15th of April 2012 as the day Michael Kroger was declared dead.

    Posted by Constituent | April 16, 2012, 12:11
  20. Constituent, whilst the magnitude of Scott’s win is enormous, I think your above comment is a tad over the top.

    Don’t dismiss Michael Kroger. His powerbase is not what it once was, but to write him off is a little premature.

    Enjoy celebrating the great win but don’t get too carried away.

    Posted by Anonski | April 16, 2012, 14:58
  21. Kroger was caned. Latika’s numbers came straight from the scrutineers. Anyone who has seen Kroger on Q&A will know why – next to Helen, any aspiring orator would look like Cicero. If Michael Kroger wanted to save his reputation, instead of trying to bullshit about the results, he should have refrained from backing a clearly inferior product.

    Posted by Robert Menzies | April 16, 2012, 19:12
  22. Robert Menzies – Perhaps many of the selectors watch Q&A. Kroger’s Q&A performance recently was a shocker. She did not know the answers to some question and tried to cuff it and then got tongue tied. God I laughed; she was the President of the Victoria Division when I was in the Liberals (1994-2003).

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 16, 2012, 19:31
  23. Surely the biggest embarrassment for Helen, which has gone unreported thus far, is that in the third round which she won against Dr Tahiri, that she won 295 – 134. That’s a lot of delegates giving a vote of no confidence in an incumbent senator.

    Posted by Epic Fail | April 17, 2012, 13:32
  24. The so called “Young Turks of Northern Metro” have much to learn what politics is really all about. Flushed with success by the innuendos and knives in the back is not a good way of supporting Senator Scott Ryan. Senator Scott Ryan is a fine bloke and deserves greater respect by those who should know better. Let it be known that its only through good campaigning that has earned him second place, and not because of intimidation, misinformation about Helen Kroger. The “Young Turks” actions only go to devaluing the position of Senator Scott Ryan. It is our belief that senator Scott Ryan should distance himself from theses so called “Young Turks” because they don’t have the intestinal fortitude of a Mustafa Kemal Atatürk who led his people by example and not by those who lack the political emotional intelligence to look forward. In any case there are only a couple of “Young Turks” in Northern Metro who are big noting themselves and slapping each other on the back. Watch and learn how troops of ANZAC respond. Northern Metro ANZACS

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 17, 2012, 13:47
  25. In response to Adrian Jackson. I would not laugh so much mate. Helen Kroger has worked her butt off in ways that we cannot imagine. I remember a time when you were about to be thrown out of the Liberal and Party and it was only through sheer the good grace of one bloke that saved you from extinction. That bloke saved your neck by stopping other who did not appreciate your methods of free speech. Still you are a good bloke and your good work in the community is well known. All that I can say cobber is “Duty Fist”

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 17, 2012, 13:56
  26. Those small minded people who lack will to make the appropriate political and emotional intelligent decisions in the political arena will make the same mistakes again and again. Spreading of falsehoods, making inaccurate statements, personal attacks and snide remarks at those who have served the Australian people is un-Australian and not in the best interest of Australia. Consider carefully in future your actions and remember that the political arena recognizes friend and foe alike and like the jungle, it is neutral. Individuals like Michael Kroger, Jeff Kennet, Henry Bolte, John Curtin, Tony Abbot, Kevin Rudd, and many other Australians made their decisions based on what was best for Australia at the cost of their own self interests. Love them or leave them, they are doing a job when the rest of the mob don’t have the guts to stand up and be counted. It doesn’t matter which side of politics you are from, we are all one people. Stop the bragging about who came first and second, stop the political bullS**t and get on with making life in this country a better place. Northern Metro ANZACS

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 17, 2012, 14:15
  27. Northern Metro ANZAC’s – I opposed the murderous invasion of Iraq and the oppression of the Palestinians by the Zionist Israelis. For that I was suspended for 12 months in June 2003 but never rejoined the Liberal Party. Would anyone in their right mind rejoin the Liberals after the Kangaroo Court they ran at Policy Assembly in 2003? Howard eventually lost his seat for his Iraq war crime.

    Well I got the Iraq issue right, there was no WMDs or Al Quadia in Iraq in 2003, and it looks like the Aussies are going to leave Afghanistan with their tail between their legs too. Another unwinnable war like South Vietnam.

    As for my Liberal detractors in 2003 where are they now? Kabos gone, Shardey gone, Troeth gone, Sheezel gone in disgrace, Purvis died, and now Kroger slipping a notch. Not sure what Kraine is doing now but I would not be surprised if she chocked on a chicken bone (like Mama Cass did) as she like eating 9 meals a day.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 17, 2012, 16:32
  28. Northern Metro ANZAC’s – The motion to expell me put up by Shardey and Troeth was defeated. Who put up the motion to suspend me for 12 months instead? Not that it mattered (see above). Are you P.A. ex ARA?

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 17, 2012, 16:43
  29. Interesting to see Abbott walk away from and marginalise (yet again!) Andrew Robb.

    He, like so many of the Victorian Libs, are truly on the outer.

    The NSW Libs and Nationals run the Coalition now.

    Posted by Brian | April 17, 2012, 17:11
  30. Cath Kraina is doing just fine and the Melbourne Ports Liberals are thriving, thank you for asking, Adrian.

    I’m for free speech but I’d rather your racist rants be confined to Vexnews because you would simply drive our members away.

    Posted by Ronnie | April 17, 2012, 18:11
  31. Adrian, It looks like I must have been your only supporter. Yes mate, they have all gone and we are still here. We only differ on on one item in your message. Although we cannot always agree. the motto remains the same. Take big fella and look after yourself.

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 17, 2012, 18:55
  32. Adrian, I forgot to mention that it was me that opposed you being thrown out of the Liberal party and t was me that requested that you be suspended. We spoke after your suspension and that was the only way I knew to save you. You didn’t deserve the roasting you got as I always believe in free speech.

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 17, 2012, 18:58
  33. Those who feel that Dr Tahiri outperformed Senator Helem Kroger are deluding themselves. Dr Tahiri had problems at the round tables and at the main event. Tokenism is it was all about Those who are in the know and have attended Senate pres-elections in the past are fully aware that its all over bar the shouting even before the convection has commenced. The number four position is a huge joke. Get real, get with it ad certainly get off your high horses with your backward and outmoded ideology. We are Australian liberals whose duty is to support our leaders. Dr Thiri made some silly remarks that only a trained observer picked up. Helen Kroger may have made some errors, but unlike many other has ben and wannabees, Helen is truly an Aussie battler who just does not give up.

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 17, 2012, 19:12
  34. Northern Metro ANZAC’s – I think I know who you are. Name P A, CARO.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 17, 2012, 20:37
  35. I’m more than happy to nurse Ryan’s privates as my Sav’s are far too soft to perform.

    Posted by Inga Binga | April 17, 2012, 21:06
  36. Adrian, Mate No you are wrong I am not PA or CARO as you mention, I don’t know those blokes. . Send me your email and I shall respond back to you or better still send me you telephone number or mobile and we shall chat.

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 17, 2012, 21:56
  37. Please forgive me Scott, please I beg you.

    I know my delegates supported Helen, but you know that was all Michael’s work. And you know I have no real power in my electorate anyway.

    I know that I supported Helen too, but you know that deep down I really supported you instead. Honestly, I did.

    I know I said that Helen is My Hero, but just remember that you are My Hero as well. You have always been My Hero. I forgive you for leaking against me. I forgive you for what you did to me in MULC. I just want to be your friend.

    Helen represents the past. You and only you represent the future. Please forgive me. And please don’t question my integrity. I hate it when everyone does that.

    Posted by KOD's conscience | April 17, 2012, 23:01
  38. Northern Metro ANZAC’s – CARO is a unit in Melbourne so you are not ex army as I thought. You would know that if you were. I am in the phone book.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 18, 2012, 3:16
  39. Adrian, We were always taught to be cautious. Therefore you must understand what veiled speech is. Look through the foliage my friend not at the jungle. The track you are on is the correct one. I shall find you in the phone book.

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 18, 2012, 9:36
  40. Adrian, There are 329 Jackson with the initial “A”. Which suburb are you in. I thought you lived in St Kilda.

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 18, 2012, 9:50
  41. Adrian was tolerated for his views in Melbourne Ports Liberal circles until he was quoted (accurately, I believe) as the head of the St Kilda Liberal Party, pledging to refuse lodgings to Americans and Israelis in his B&B.

    If he ever did this, he would be breaking the law. That was when those who did not support previous actions to discipline him inside the Liberal Party finally conceded something had to be done. He is only missed in Melbourne Ports Liberal circles because the meetings don’t tend to be as entertaining any more.

    Posted by Steve Sensible | April 18, 2012, 12:19
  42. Steve Sensible – We have had this debate many times before on Vexnews. The 2003 ban on US and Israeli citizens was because of the murderous invasion of Iraq led by the USA and the oppression of the Palestinians by Israel. Bush and his cabinet were insane.

    The ban on Americans was lifted when the sane Barak Obama withdrew from Iraq but the Israel ban is still in place. This ban was quite public at the time and I even got an interview on Channel 10 and the ABC (3LO).

    No body has changed me because political protest is legal in Australia.

    Also were are all the political scumbags now; gone or going and I am still hear.

    Rudd is to be congratulated for withdrawing from Iraq and Gillard is to be congratulated for withdrawing earlier from Afghanistan.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 18, 2012, 14:45
  43. PS: Last month I had some US/Canadian guests and I told them about my US ban because of Bush that was now lifted; they laughed and agreed with me.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 18, 2012, 14:52
  44. … while steadily backing away, with their eyes watching your hands for any quick movement.

    Posted by Byron in Wahroonga | April 18, 2012, 15:04
  45. Wacko Jacko (Adrian – not Kathy) – you seem to miss one crucial matter re your suspension from the Liberal Party. When you went on ABC (then 3LO) informing the public of your “ban” on US and Israeli citizens from staying at your B&B, you did so in your capacity as President of the Middle Park branch (I’m sure you’ll correct me if I got the branch wrong).

    Can’t you see that by identifying yourself as a president of Liberal Party branch on 3LO and preceeding to discuss your “ban” that you brought the Party into disrepute?

    Posted by Anonski | April 18, 2012, 15:05
  46. Anonski – No I did not do it in my capacity as a branch President. I did it as a businessman or an individual. That ABC bitch who interviewed me referred to my Liberal membership but I did not raise it. I have a copy of the ABC audio tape too.

    Why do all you people have to hide behind fake names?

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 18, 2012, 15:47
  47. As the only pic of you on google Adrian is gobbing down a VB with your bogan mates, and your well known association with neo nazis, it is only fair people don’t want you to know where they live

    Posted by RT | April 18, 2012, 22:44
  48. The 4th place on the Victorian Liberal Senate ticket is set aside for a National.

    Posted by Expert | April 18, 2012, 22:48
  49. My birth certificate says Stephen James Sensible.

    It doesn’t matter why you were banning them, or if Americans and/or Israelis agreed with you – it’s still illegal discrimination and once you started advocating an illegal act, that’s when any tolerance of your behaviour in the Liberal Party evaporated.

    And Adrian was President of the St Kilda branch.

    Posted by Steve Sensible | April 19, 2012, 10:43
  50. RT – as far as I know there are no photos of me on Google drinking. I don’t drink CUB beer either (Boags or Kirin for me in trendy Port Phillip)

    There are a few photos linked to newspaper stories though. Me standing in a suit at my home wearing my 3 Army medals was the last one a few years ago.

    Perhaps it’s another AJ dining the drinking as its a common name. I know of 3 others in Melbourne. A jeweler in Elsternwick, an aboriginal activist in Werribee and a fellow who organises Jazz festival and writes for the paper on Jazz. There is also an Aussie associated with the push bike racing too.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 19, 2012, 13:20
  51. Steve Sensible – Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha. Stop repeating your lines like a parrot.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 19, 2012, 13:23
  52. Andrew – Looks like we have some Danby staffers commenting here again. We taxpayers are paying their wages too. No wonder nothing productive happens in Melbourne Ports.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 19, 2012, 13:29
  53. RT – I don’t drink VB, in fact I don’t drink any CUB products, as I prefer Kirin and Boags in trendy Port Phillip and then only a single beer about once a week.

    As for the photo you refer to what is the link to it as I think the only photos of me on-line are part of newspaper stories (eg) Emerald Hill Weekly 02 Apr 08 and The Age 13 Sep 07 and what a dashing figure I cut in my suit and 3 Army medals outside my home in both photos.

    I am in a few crowd shots in local papers at protests against the proposed St Kilda Triangle development too.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 19, 2012, 19:20
  54. Sav please try again?

    Posted by Inga Binga | April 19, 2012, 19:50
  55. ***what a dashing figure I cut in my suit and 3 Army medals***

    D445 Battalion, Ade?

    Posted by Byron in Wahroonga | April 19, 2012, 20:48
  56. Helen, you should’ve given me a call. I could’ve made up some BS allegations about Senator X and perjured myself by putting them in a stat dec.

    Posted by Gobbler | April 19, 2012, 22:11
  57. Gobble, gobble

    Posted by Gobbler | April 20, 2012, 0:17
  58. I love ‘gobbling’ gentlemen and to entertain them I can play ‘ping pong’ with a basketball.

    Posted by Wenchy | April 20, 2012, 0:30
  59. I love ‘gobbling’ too. I can’t gobble my dear friend and former client, Mocca, anymore. The guards at Barown are a bit funny about conjugal visits.

    Posted by Gobbler | April 20, 2012, 0:38
  60. Gobbler cum along to the ‘Berwick Inn’ with me, there are always plenty to ‘gobble’ at the Over 28s.

    Posted by Wenchy | April 20, 2012, 0:57
  61. Oh how we miss Adrian in Melbourne Ports. As I look down upon you all from the giant marina in the sky, I treasure memories of the many raffle tickets we sold to the punters who came to see his hilarious rants.

    Posted by Le Purves's Ghost | April 20, 2012, 2:33
  62. What were the medals for? Bravery as a latrine seargent?

    Posted by RT | April 20, 2012, 17:51
  63. RT – I bet you spend a lot of time in public toilets. Sergeant spelt wrong too.

    You must be IDF conscript cannon fodder for Hezbollah and Hamas to use a target practice.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 20, 2012, 19:04
  64. Adrian, you telling people about spelling….ever hear about glass houses and rocks?

    Sadly for you, the IDF is pretty victorious. How they did it without the services of an awesome soldier like you who got 2 promotions in 23 years and got discharged for intestinal ulcers I’ll never know…

    Posted by RT | April 20, 2012, 23:50
  65. RT – we all know IDF conscripts are poor fighters when up against a well armed irregular force like Hezbollah in South Lebanon in 2006.

    The look of relief of the young IDF soldiers faces as the withdrew (retreated more likely) a few weeks later with their asses and knuckles dragging on the ground said it all.

    The IDF are good at killing unarmed civilian though and raping Palestinian children in public toilets.

    Did you also see on TV last week the hairy IDF Colonel butt stroke a European protester for no good reason. What an ape.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 21, 2012, 10:08
  66. Adrian, as someone who supposedly has a glorious military history you haven’t really read much about military history have you? When the IDF fought regular Arab armies they smashed them time after time.

    Like all armies, including ours, it is somewhat more difficult to fight against guerillas, especially those who hide behind unarmed civilians.

    While from time to time you raise legitimate criticisms of Israel (eg, the idiot who but riffled the protestor) it hardly counts when coming from an uneducated mole like you who got discharged from a desk job at the army for an inflammatory bowel. No wonder we couldn’t win in Iraq and Afghanistan without your paper pushing skills….

    Posted by RT | April 21, 2012, 17:45
  67. Sadly Adrian, most pimpled 19yo in Israel have a more glorious military career than your uneventful 23 years in the army, with only two promotions and the highlight of a trip to butter worth in Malaysia

    Posted by RT | April 21, 2012, 17:48
  68. RT – The counter revolutionary warfare (CRW) waged against the Communist Terrorists (CT’s) in Malaysia was won but the Malaysians and Commonwealth Forces.

    This was probably helped because there were no Yanks or Yids there.

    Butterworth is one word not two.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 21, 2012, 20:01
  69. Adrian…..glass houses…..stones….remember?

    Posted by RT | April 22, 2012, 11:33
  70. Big slip there Adrian, anti-zionists who pretend not to be anti-Semites don’t tend to use the term yid. Too fast on the keyboard douchebag?

    Plus, I love it How you totally ducked the criticism of your military career instead pointing to a typo. Pretty typical of you as per other threads here and elsewhere – ducking, hiding, changing the topic, all to avoid talking about your failure of a real military career. Quite clearly a FONC

    Posted by St Kilda Liberal | April 22, 2012, 19:32
  71. To KOD’s conscience: There are no heroes, there are no delegates playing both sides, there are no “Michaels” there are no double standards, there is no leaks, there is no forgiveness and there are certainly no friendships in the political arena. What there is in place is the lack of emotional intelligence on those who having nothing better to do. As for those who are bent on attacking Adrian Jackson . Remember to learn and understand your history well. Individuals like Adrian Jackson, whether you like them or not should be heard whether they are right or wrong on what they have to say. We may not necessarily agree with them, but it important to hear what they say. Only then when all matters have been digested and analyzed thoroughly can one respond in an intelligent manner. Adrian has served this country and worn the uniform of Australian for a very long time. He has faced many adversities in his life time and has the right to say his piece. I don’t agree with much of what he says, but I will fight to the death to give him the opportunity to let him have his say. Many of us may agree to disagree on matters regarding the debate on the Israelis and Palestinians, but that, does not mean that we go about rubbishing each other’s point view in a barbaric and insolent manner. Everyone has the right to express themselves. To stifle some one is un-Australian.

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 22, 2012, 23:56
  72. That’s al nice and true northern metro – everyone is more than allowed to pick sides in the Israel/Palestinian conflict – not a problem at all.

    Now you and I know that Adrian goes well beyond that calling people yids, celebrating the Tolouse massacre just to name a few recent posts.

    Posted by St Kilda Liberal | April 23, 2012, 8:17
  73. Vex news did recently ban a commentator for anti-Semitic remarks on the solly lew story, but has let Adrian run riot for years with his vile anti-semitism.

    Maybe it’s time to have him banned and quash the rumors on other blogs that Adrian gets paid to comment on vex news

    Posted by St Kilda Liberal | April 23, 2012, 8:19
  74. For the record. I prefer that Israel exists as a nation in its own right, alongside that of a Palestinian state. Having said that, does not give me or anyone else the right to make negative statements about either nation. All nations are guilty at one time or another of doing harm to mankind. We as a species must learn to move on and realize the futility of it all. IN any case we seem to be losing the plot and becoming side tracked. I enjoy an intelligent discussion less the negative expletives.

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 23, 2012, 12:06
  75. St Kilda Liberal – Is St Kilda Liberal really Michael Danby or one of his vile ALP lackies?

    Yids is just a slang word like Pom, Skip, Wog, Abo etc so get used to it.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 23, 2012, 19:10
  76. I didnt thing St Kilda had any Liberals. The St Kilda Liberal Branch used to be mainly made up of people who did not live in St Kilda.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 23, 2012, 19:14
  77. The branch has grown significantly since you were expelled Adrian Jackoff

    Posted by St Kilda Liberal | April 23, 2012, 21:38
  78. For what it is worth, the names “Yids, Poms, Skips, Wogs, Abos, Dagos, Chinks, Spags, Golliwogs, Niggers, and so forth were created with the intent purpose of degrading another race or person and it is certainly not slang. Sorry Adrian old mate, but I must disagree with you here. In my day, if some one called me one of the above, I simply belted him in the mouth and told him to F**Ck or just to Piss off. I consider myself an Australian on every level just like anybody else and I would not be put down by anyone. Adrian, I respect you on many matters, but we must disagree on name calling another to feel superior. Sticks and stones may break peoples bones but names will ALWAYS leaves psychological scars. ALWAYS – But thank heavens we live in a society that tolerates other cultures. This may be my last message on this forum as I am beginning to get the impression that it may not be the appropriate forum to discuss such matters and as such I ask forgiveness of anyone if my comments have offended any one. I am only an ordinary bloke who detests racism in any format and as such respect all people, cultures and will support anyone to give them the right to speak. Take care one all.

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 24, 2012, 15:06
  79. St Kilda Liberal – so what was the branch membership numbers in 2002 and what is now in 2012?

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 24, 2012, 15:40
  80. Northern Metro ANZAC’s – I support assimilation not multiculturalism and I know you have assimilated.

    Multiculturalism has some good aspects like different foods plus, song and dance acts on Australia Day but so much about it is bad.

    It is divides rather than uniting the peoples of a nation. I likes the 1901 Federation motto “One Nation, One People, One Destiny” that was displayed over St Kilda Rd near the NGV in 2001.

    Here is a list of backward multicultural (foreign) practices: arranged marriage, forced marriage, honour killings, backward religious views on gays (gaol or kill them) and women’s rights (no rights), failed economic systems (Ireland , Greece, Italy etc), failed political systems (Zimbabwe), failed republicanism (The US President is both Head of State and Head of Government), police state (many countries including Israel) just to name a few.

    Just looks at the Middle East but also much of Europe, Russia and many other countries. In fact most of the rest of the world they are hopeless and deserve the slang tags they get stuck with because they are inferior not as humans but because of their backward beliefs.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 24, 2012, 16:00
  81. 25 years ago a female housemate gave me a present made in India. It was a tube of tooth paste brand name “The Darkie Toothpaste” with an Al Jolson face on it (I still have it) and remember we used to eat “nigger boy” licorice and use “nigger boy” soap pads. No body worried about it but now we are politically correct – they think!!!

    By the way the great Al Jolson was a Jew. Remember a few years ago “Billy Coke Bottle” from Queensland did a “black face” show at Crown and there was a protest from the Zionist and the left but at the same time Izzy Di did an Al Jolson Show at Caulfield Town Hall with no protests. Izzy is a Jew. See there is selective political correctness in Australia too.

    Posted by Adrian Jackson | April 24, 2012, 16:14
  82. ***police state (many countries including Israel***

    Ade, your coal scuttle helmet’s on too tight. Israel’s a democracy, the only transparent one in the Middle East.

    Posted by Byron in Wahroonga | April 24, 2012, 16:43
  83. Adrian, I was not going to get into a debate where it can never end. I would rather have a face to face chat like in the old days. Regarding your comments of assimilation, I have not ASSIMILATION and never will. I have INTEGRATED into the Australian fabric of society. Like those of the Anglo, Celtic, Saxon cultures who did not and must not forget their origins, I am of the same ilk. Those cultures never assimilated and never wanted to assimilate because they did not become part of the aboriginal race, but became part of the Australian landscape with an identity unknown before based on their culture and origins. The only culture that has not wanted to become Australian citizens are those who have come from Great Britain. The reason being is that they believe that they are part of the Commonwealth and are British first, Australians second. Therefore they DON’T want to become Australian citizens. Their children are a different kettle of fish. As for multiculturalism, it’s really only a word that has been misused, misrepresented ad hijacked by those who should know better. The word multiculturalism in its entirety is merely a “VEHICLE” for the FIRST generation that comes to Australia in order that successive generations become Australians in their own right. When I was young and faced with this identity crisis, I realized that INTEGRATION rather ASSIMILATION was a better format as it enabled me (like my Anglo Celtic Saxon brethren) to retain the positive aspects of my original culture and that of my heritage. having said that, I have instilled in all of my children that they are Australians first and to NEVER deny their heritage or origins of their parents. To deny ones heritage is to deny one’s self. Adrian I came out of this identity crisis well and consider myself an ordinary bloke. I must have some good in me to be able to make valued judgments and to stand up and fight the hordes that are against you, even though you and I disagree on some matters. To make matters even of more interest, I have researched the Israeli and that of the Palestinian question to satisfy mu curiosity. But I am afraid that despite my research, I am no nearer to understanding it at all and therefore I am of the belief that both nations have sufficient mature and intelligent statesmen to work out their issues. I am but a mere grain of sand in the sea of life and as long as the sun shines upon me in a benevolent way, I will always support your right to speak. I also know enough of you as a person to say that you are a good bloke, who do not hate Israelis per se but have taken a stance to support the Palestinian cause. That’s not wrong at all as we are all entitled to have an opinion. Mate you know my telephone number by now. its best left that way. Take care and have a great ANZAC Day tomorrow.

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 24, 2012, 17:59
  84. My sincere apologies for my poor grammar. Only realized after submitting the post.

    Posted by Northern Metro ANZACS | April 25, 2012, 9:55